Christie Neptune: "We are approaching a cataclysmic break."
KALA HERH Our first question is regarding this new issue that we just published with the guest editor, Mickalene Thomas. How did you come to know her? And what you've learned from such a relationship.
CHRISTIE NEPTUNE I was first introduced to Mickalene Thomas and her work during an artist talk held at the Aperture Foundation in 2015. She was discussing her forthcoming book, “Muse: Mickalene Thomas Photographs” in conversation with Jennifer Blessing. It was not until 3 years later, that I was given the opportunity to personally meet her. I was invited to exhibit in “The Aesthetics of Matter,” a group show curated by Mickalene Thomas and Racquel Chevermont within the curated section of VOLTA. Prior to that exhibit, I had never shown within a commercial art fair. The exposure and connections that the opportunity provided were significant. I never take it for granted.
Since then, it's been quite an amazing journey of mentorship and enlightenment. I have learned a great deal from Mickalene on navigating the art world, working with a gallery and negotiating one’s own success as an Emerging Artist. To be given those pearls of wisdom from an artist of her caliber is certainly an honor.
HERH That sounds incredibly enriching. So let's step over to your work as well. I specifically want to talk about the multimedia series, "She Fell from Normalcy." I find it a very profound piece of work that investigates the constructs of race, gender and class. What made you want to tackle such an ambitious project with this one?
NEPTUNE “She Fell From Normalcy” (2016) is the second installment from my three-part series, “The Eye of The Storm.” I reconcile past trauma experienced during my early twenties and draw from personal experiences navigating white spaces as black, female, middle class, and marginalized. I am very unapologetic in my approach and intent.
I started development on this series in 2012. Through crowdsourcing and fellowship support, I was able to complete and exhibit all three parts from “The Eye of The Storm” series, including “Shadow of Self” (2014); “She Fell From Normalcy” (2016); and “Pulling at My Labels” (2016) at the Hamiltonian Gallery (Washington, DC) in 2016. Since it’s culmination, each body of work from the series has been exhibited as a stand-alone piece.
I essentially wanted to create a platform in which I could spotlight, challenge and explore the communal stigmas of mental health in communities of color.“She Fell From Normalcy,” conceptually, through narration, sound and movement explore how the socio-political systems of race, class and gender limit the personal experiences of historically marginalized individuals of color. It challenges the white gaze and explores vulnerability as an extension of strength. It is essentially a seven-minute video of self-actualization.
HERH Yeah for sure. What about this cataclysmic break in the system that you talk about? Do you think with the influx of riots and marches now that we're getting close to reaching such a break? Or do you think it's very far coming or is this more ideological?
NEPTUNE Sound is a disruptive force in “She Fell From Normalcy.” The cataclysmic break as displayed in the film begins when sound interrupts an oppressive system and shifts perspective. Sound within that instance becomes a poignant agent for change. It tunes out the “gaze” and allows the women trapped within white space to finally see themselves. Self-actualize.
When I think about all the things happening within the world today, I am a bit dismayed and in the same instance optimistic. We need a cataclysmic break in our system to shift consciousness and proffer new spaces to envision and construct a future devoid of limitations. Fortunately, as long as this system is working, there will be resistance. Marches. Riots. Protest. However, resistance exercised by my generation, today, gives me hope.
I don't think that we're at a “break” yet. However, I do feel that we’re at a point in history in which there is a shared understanding of what's going on. We see what’s happening and we are resisting. We are approaching a cataclysmic break.
HERH Speaking of such a break, do you foresee this shift occurring before the time you pass?
NEPTUNE You know, if you had asked me this question before, I would say “no.” However, I currently believe that it is possible as my perspective has shifted. I can't help thinking about my grandparent’s astonishment over the election of former President, Barack Obama. Prior to Obama, the idea of a Black President, for most people of color, was science fiction. All that changed after his election. The “awe,” “shock,” and “surreal nature” of that election shifted norms and perspective. A person of color assuming the highest rank in government or an organization is now “normal.” When juxtaposing my generation’s “normal” to that of past generations, a new system devoid of limitation does not seem too distant. I definitely foresee a shift occurring in my generation; before I get too old and pass. We are certainly in close proximity to one.
HERH What about this process of filming? Do you storyboard prior or is it more spontaneous?
NEPTUNE I would love to say that my process is intuitive, but it is not. I spent years in development with “She Fell From Normalcy.” I drafted and revised the script a series of times before I became satisfied with the feeling and the visual my words evoked on white paper.
I wanted to explore limitations through movement. The process towards discovery was rather simple. I choreographed a sequence of basic steps that built upon the key tenets of my thesis. It was very important, to me, that movement appeared natural and unrehearsed given the scope of time I had. I had four hours of shoot time in a rented studio. I didn't have a full day of production. So, everything had to be on point. I was working with talent who were not experienced actors or dancers. This was an element that I had to troubleshoot in order to get the look that I wanted. You'll be surprised to know that talent learned choreographed steps the day of production.
HERH That's insane.
NEPTUNE Yeah, I know. I remember when coming to this resolve, I would speak to people about it and they would say, "You are mad. I don't think it's the best thing to do. You only have four hours. You don't want to mess this up." However, I felt this decision was best considering my circumstance.
Talent learned choreographed steps on the day of production through “Call and Response.” I called out a prompt and they responded with their body. On occasion, when the interpretation of natural language did not work, I would stand off-screen and have Talent mirror my movement. The combination of both techniques proffered fluidity. We had 30 minutes to set up and 30 minutes to break down. Technically, I had only three hours to film. The limited-time scope, in retrospect, worked in my favor.
HERH I can't believe that you were able to do a whole film in three hours. Do you think that the time limit was almost a blessing?
NEPTUNE I'm sort of in-between. I'm always curious, even to this day. How would I expand upon this idea? I think this mode of thinking is natural. I like to believe that every artist when looking back on their works and process wonders what could have been done differently? But that's the thing about time and my “Emerging” status. As an Emerging Artist, I have to be realistic. I'm working with limited resources. What works best for me as an Emerging Artist is being very resourceful and adept at finding clever ways to troubleshoot my problems. I think that skill is something we should all have.
HERH Well, either way, it's a beautiful piece. So you can't really go wrong. Let's dive into color theory for a little bit. This particular piece has a very compelling one with the emerald green. So I'm wondering what these dominant colors in this video and also in the series represent to you.
NEPTUNE For me, color factors significantly within my work. Sometimes it's done intentionally and sometimes the color employed is incidental.
For example, a blue tint is abstracted in “She Fell From Normalcy” and throughout “The Eye of The Storm” series. Blue serves as a requisite mode of transport, wrapping time and space to transport my viewers to a contemplative space in which they can examine and investigate how constructs of race, gender, and class limit the personal experiences of marginalized individuals of color. In essence, it is symbolic of the Atlantic; a divisive barrier separating freedom and bondage.
In “Unpacking Sameness,” green drapery wraps time and space to transport my viewers to the Dutch Golden Age; the dawn of European exploration and the Transatlantic Slave Trade.
I reference iconic green drapery found in mid-17th-century Dutch paintings, and symbolic mirrors referenced in Baldwin's 1965 essay, “The White Man's Guilt.” Through color and symbolism, I map the historical timeline of structural racism in this country.
HERH I understand that for this particular piece you incorporated a public performance piece. Do you enjoy this kind of interactive where your audience can view you as you're engaging in your art?
NEPTUNE I appreciate the insight gained from audience participation. It was my first time doing a public performance. The feedback was very positive. I can see myself doing another public performance in the near future.
HERH Oh really?
NEPTUNE My performances are usually very intimate. They are performed privately and released to the public in post. "Unpacking Sameness" was the complete opposite. I remember being very nervous and intimidated by the idea of performing publicly. It was a moment of sheer vulnerability and the experience is deeply ingrained within my mind.
The performance: “Dismantling Man Made Constructs,” proffered a two-way conversation between the viewer and myself. It eliminated distance. When I say “distance,” I am referring to the invisible barrier established between “The Artist” and “The Viewer” in the context of viewing the art. “The Artist” creates the art and the “The Viewer” interprets, examines and critiques. “Dismantling Man Made Constructs” was the first performance in which I found the viewer to be a collaborator in my process of creation. I had to relinquish full control and allow viewer participation to essentially move the performance in the right direction.
HERH I think the work you are doing is profound, directly engaging in a two-way conversation with your audience that we don't often see in the fine arts world. This is unique in that you are able to work with them to tackle important issues. Our last question is given this politically and socially charged climate, are you working on anything that you're excited about?
NEPTUNE I am currently working on “Constructs and Context Relativity,” an 8-part performance series that explores the conceptual impact of abstraction found within the dichotomous relationship of object and space. “Performance I” from the 8-part series was produced during my fellowship with NXTHVN in New Haven, CT.
During the initial stages of this project, I spent a great deal of time exploring the urban landscape of the Dixwell community of New Haven. During my walks through the community, I photographed a series of vacant lots and properties in deterioration or development. The images captured prompted me to consider how the role of “Presence” and “Absence” informed space constructions. The objects, history, and context evoked (the immaterial), within these empty spaces, intrigued me. Although unseen, they shared a particular relation to space: the building that once stood there; the institution and the function it served; the people who visited and operated the space. How did the absence of these things inform the socio-politics of “space;” space being the Dixwell neighborhood of New Haven, CT?
I was very fortunate to be given the time and space to produce the first installment of this series at NXTHVN. I am looking forward to further developing the second installment of “Constructs and Context Relativity” at my next place of residence.
HERH That's phenomenal. We can't wait to see it when it comes to fruition.
In Unpacking Sameness the social construct of structural racism is given symbolic form in The Colorline, a sculpture comprised of mirror, industrial chrome articulated armature, and heavy green velvet curtain.
The sculpture appears in a series of self-portraits in which Neptune is framed, restrained, and inhibited within the construct. The composition of "Exposing My limits Behind America’s Curtain" mirrors "Girl Reading a Letter by an Open Window" by Johannes Vermeer. Vermeer’s 1658 painting was created at the height of the Dutch colonial empire and slave trade, during the Dutch Golden Age. Just as the young woman in Vermeer’s piece is in positioned, so is Neptune. But instead of an open window surrounded by a luxurious interior, Neptune sits atop a metal stool, facing an acrylic sheet held in position by the chrome mechanical armature, her hands pressed at against its surface. The green velvet curtain hangs from an unseen rod partially obscuring her body.
The video Dismantling Man-Made Constructs shot on Super 8 lm and HD video in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, features an interactive performance. During the performance, participants of the group were divided into groups of two: white participants as “Colonizers” and non-white participants as “The Colonized.” Participants of the performance were provided a strict list of rules and instructional guidelines on how to assemble or disassemble the “Colorline” sculpture.
The rules:
A “Colonizer” is allowed to construct the assembled piece.
A “Colonizer” can deconstruct the assembled piece only when in collaboration with the “Colonized.”
The “Colonized” can have a portrait taken of them within the gaze of the construct.
The “Colonized” could take a self-portrait within the gaze of the construct.
The “Colonized” can deconstruct the assembled construct.
The “Colonized” can choose not to deconstruct the assembled construct in collaboration with a “Colonizer.”
Sitting like Delia with bare top and indigo is a self-portrait in which Neptune mimics the posture and dress of an enslaved woman in a mid-eighteenth century photo-portrait: the Daguerreotype of Delia, which is one in a series of photographs of enslaved Africans as part of Louis Agassiz’s race studies in 1850. Neptune, a free black female, is bare topped in blue denim with shutter release in hand, conveying intentful control over her own representation and presentation.
Unpacking Sameness maps a social history as it has been embodied and portrayed symbolically. Neptune, when embodying these symbols, takes steps to nuance and complicate their reading, to dislocate their place in time and space, and to pull loose the knots in our mental web of ideas about race and gender in America.
Project Link:
christieneptune.com/unpacking-norms
Video Credits:
Writer and Director:
Christie Neptune
Producer:
Christie Neptune
Cinematographers:
Christine Shaw and Christie Neptune
Production Assistants:
Cassandra Waldrop and Ahmad Saeed
Editor:
Christie Neptune
Sound Composition:
Christopher Neptune
Narrator:
Christie Neptune
Performance Participants:
Edverette Brewster
Myra Hellerstein
Caitlin Stewart
Sehar Golanis
Mitch De Castro
Liz Holman
AJ Harris
Sammy Brown
