Alessandra Schade: Remembering how I was in my moody teenage years, I’m laughing at the prospect of how I would have reacted if my mother wanted to photograph me and my friends — especially in such intimate settings. How did your sons initially respond to your photographing them? And did their reactions change over the years?

Martine Fougeron: So I started in 2005. My son Nicolas was 14 and my son Adrien was 13. They're almost Irish twins, but they looked a lot apart because Nicolas was just becoming a full-fledged adolescent. He had grown an arms length in a span of six months. He was in full rebellion against me. So he was not at all in favor of the project. I wasn't taking it personally. My other son was 13, but really was still a child. He was super cooperative and we were discussing lighting, we were discussing framing. For him, it was a learning, educational exercise. So they reacted very differently at the beginning. Then things changed, because of the stage they were at, and it would become Adrien that was against me. There's one picture where he shows me his finger. So I think they're cooperation or non-cooperation was really a reflection of the feelings and attitude they had towards me both as a mother and me as a photographer. And it evolved.

Nicolas & Adrien – Martine Fougeron © Steidl — *Nicolas & Adrien* – Martine Fougeron © Steidl

Alessandra: How did you navigate “mom” versus “photographer?” Were there times where these roles got muddled or when a conflict arose between the two?

Martine: I think it was always a fine line. That's why when I committed to make this a project on adolescence, I thought, okay, I'm in it for the long run. If the fact that I'm photographing really is uncomfortable for them, I won’t do it, because I can always take that situation again. We're living together. So I navigated by instinct, I would say. If I felt that they were in a good mood towards me or that they were feeling good about themselves, then I would privilege that moment. Even if I wanted to photograph because I felt it was a good scene but would create animosity, I wouldn't pick up the camera. And also, I set some ground rules. I would never photograph anything that came close to heavy sexual material because I thought that was really unfair. And secondly, I would always tell them, "Look, I'm going to stay around for 20 minutes.” And if after 20 minutes I didn't have the image, I would just let go of it. I didn't want to feel that here I was hanging out with them the whole evening. I would also show the images to my sons and they had a veto power.

Alessandra: Can you take me through an evening of shooting a party? Did the teen throwing the party know that two boys were going to show up with their camera-toting mother?

Martine: I wouldn't show up to other people's houses. I mean, we're in a coronavirus era, and basically I was shooting in a confined area. If you look at most of my pictures, they are taken within my house. The kids knew I was around. I was kind of like an auntie figure for them. They would come and talk to me. I had personal relationships with each one of them. My studio is on the second floor and they would always go up the stairs, come in and say, "Hello." I would prepare good meals, we'd eat together. So there was something very French, like an extended family. So our house was the haven for the tribe. Which, of course, made the photographing much easier because it was a safe place.

Alessandra: What did you learn as a photographer from this 13-year-long project? As a mother?

Martine: I see the biggest personal reward as getting closer to my sons. [I had] to be very in tune with what's happening in their psyches and their life. I had to have kind of a sixth sense about, is this a good moment to photograph or not? It allowed me to be super subjective and very in tune with them. But at the same time, the camera, as soon as you put your eye to the lens, you're seeing things differently. You're concentrating on something much more objective. And so that kind of detachment allowed me to understand them better. Overall I think it's bonded us much more and there's a deeper understanding of each one's ideals, personalities, and persona.

Alessandra: Have you found that there’s a difference in family culture in France and in the United States?

Martine: Definitely. I think that the relationship between parents, at least this generation of parents in France, in Europe, it's more friends after a while. It's less hierarchical. It's more intimate just because we have a custom of having breakfast together, lunch together, dinner together, of talking, of perhaps watching less TV. People, when they look at the pictures say, "Oh, it looks so joyful." There's something very joyful about it because there is that sense of community, of these recurring characters that you see. You see them in New York, you see them in the South of France, you see some of the same friends coming. So you get this feeling of real community, which I think is very important in these dark epidemic days, right?

Alessandra: As one can imagine when photographing adolescent boys and young men, there’s an underlying theme of sexuality in your photographs. I’ve found that there’s often a disconnect between parents and children when navigating topics of sexuality. Do you find that people react in a certain way to these photographers since they are your sons? And what do you make of their reaction?

Martine: I see it as sensuous and I see it as expressions of tenderness and love, but not necessarily sexual. I definitely avoided any nakedness, though of course, there was some nakedness in my house. I really did not want any sensationalism. I think that when people see the after-prom party photos, they're like "Whoa. They’re in a swimming pool, all together." But they were just bonding as friends. Most of them were just super friends. In the European cultures we kiss each other, we hug each other. There's much more of a tactile and closeness and freedom of body than there is, perhaps in the United States, [which is] more prudish.

Alessandra: Since the project’s conclusion, how do you and your sons look back at that time?

Martine: I think that's the beauty of a project like [this]. Nicolas had a tendency, when he was really young, to be in his video games, to be a little depressed. Photographs deal with memory and I think they're thankful because [by] looking at the images, it allowed him to see that he was depressed and it was like a soft psychoanalysis. And I think my youngest son saw a lot of moments that he had almost forgotten. So it's kind of a revelation and also a celebration of their person, their lives – our lives.

Alessandra: Martine, it was an absolute pleasure going through this journey with you. I know that you just flew from New York to be in France for the COVID-19 pandemic. Are your sons with you during this quarantine? Should we be expecting a quarantine series?

Martine: I left New York where my youngest son lives. I felt he was in a good space. He's there with his girlfriend. I did take pictures of them. As I'm going to be continuing the project Nicolas & Adrien into “The Thirties,” there will certainly be a chapter on this coronavirus episode. I just came back here in the South of France, in my tiny childhood hamlet of Esparon, where my other son took refuge a week ago with three friends. I think that as far as I'm concerned, I'm going to continue photographing. I hope to continue the project with my son and his friends here in the hills.

Alessandra: I’m calling you today from my parent’s home, talking from a makeshift office in fleece pajamas. It’s certainly a unique time where families are coming together and living together, sharing this unprecedented moment in history. As someone who’s documented intimate family moments — what do you think we should expect from this time in terms of creativity, family time, photography?

Martine: I think that these times of self-confinement, the place that you've chosen – probably, the place where you feel the safest, whether it be with friends or with family – is already really important. You have to honor that. As an artist, it's really important to take advantage of this time to reflect on what really is meaningful in one's life and one's practice. And create priorities and space and a retreat into your own artistic world.

Nicolas & Adrien. A World with Two Sons is a series of intimate portraits of Martine Fougeron’s two sons and their friends growing up in New York and France. Both tender and distanced, the book is a visual bildungsroman that delves into the intense present of her sons’ adolescent states of mind before they become independent adults. Nicolas et Adrien consists of two interconnected bodies of work, “Teen Tribe” (2005–10) and “The Twenties” (2010–18). Composed mostly of photos taken at Fougeron’s New York home and during summers in the South of France, “Teen Tribe” explores adolescence as a liminal state between childhood and adulthood, and follows the adolescent’s interior quest and development of character. “The Twenties” captures the period between adolescence and full adulthood, depicting her sons’ college years, trials with vocations and work, new friends and lovers, holidays and family celebrations. Nicolas & Adrien is a sensual biography of two adolescents and a depiction of the universal processes of growing up to which all can relate.
Click here for more information on Steidl
Martine Fougeron’s The Photography Master Retreat, is a one week workshop in a remote hamlet in the South of France. While they hope for a 2020 date, the retreat will be postponed to 2021 if the COVID-19 pandemic persists through the summer. You can apply here to be considered for an upcoming retreat.

Apr 2 Interview: Martine Fougeron

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