Beyoncé, Antwerp, Belgium, 2015 © Ulla Deventer

Interview by Anna Jacobson

Butterflies Are A Sign of A Good Thing reminds me a bit of Dana Lixenberg, a Dutch photographer, and her body of work “Imperial Courts” made in a public housing project located in Los Angeles, California. Is there a photographer you admire, who influenced this work?

Subconsciously there are probably two artists that influenced my work in general since a very early state. When I was 19, I interned with the fashion photographer Iris Brosch in Paris, who has probably been the first visual working feminist I got to know. Iris gives powerful and deliberated visions on the female body, working with all shapes. At that time, she started working on personal projects and performances, in that she created sophisticated, fictional arrangements with her models in a very playful and almost surreal way. Many of her models came in their early 20s from Eastern Europe to Paris and worked very hard to manage their life, which is obviously a universal issue in the fashion industry. There is a lot of pain behind the fashion world. To learn how Iris transferred her emancipated vision on women into her work, and at the same time to suddenly question the capitalistic fashion industry, definitely had an impact on what I do now. I have also admired Louise Bourgeois since I was a teenager. I am especially inspired by her installations and her ability to infiltrate her deeply personal experiences into a universal artwork. My fascination with domestic fabrics is taken from her.

The Snail, Accra, Ghana, 2017 © Ulla Deventer

What at first motivated me in the work Butterflies was less a particular photographer or artist but more the dominance of stereotypical images on sex work that were done from a voyeuristic perspective, highlighting all the clichés of sex work without really saying anything. Just after my own research in Athens, there was a short article in a well-known German newspaper about the “rise of prostitution in Greece due to the refugee crisis.” All the published pictures were underling the idea that sex workers would be “from a lower human class”. They would be drug-addicted, or at least be “victims of their situation”. I also sensed that the reputation of NGOs among the sex workers at all the places I have been being generally very bad. They rarely felt involved in any decision but more exploited then supported.

I, from the beginning, was motivated to create an opposite to the sexualized or victimizing images on sex work. I wanted to represent them in a more personal way, based on our collaboration. I only work with women with who I can personally relate and share certain aspects on how we perceive our life. Many of them are very close friends today, one became my roommate. Most works about sex workers are done from a male perspective, too. It is this simple concept, that you visit them as a potential client, pay them a fee and eventually take the picture you want.

Furthermore, there have been debates and works by photographers I admire who motivated me with their slow collaborative approach. These are women like Nina Berman with “An autobiography of Miss Wish” as well Anastasia Taylor-Lind with her postcard project “Welcome to Donetsk”–which is only one example of how she gave new perspectives on social documentary. She subsequently contributed strong arguments for the urge of new ways of representing social issues in some of her writings, criticizing the often sensationalized images of platforms like World Press Photo. I am glad to see that there is a slow change coming up although the debate is still too silent, I am sometimes ashamed to see how many colleagues are still working with disrespect of their protagonists, often even without being aware of their position.

Bianca, Athens, Greece, 2016 © Ulla Deventer

Let Your Secret Be Your Power, embroidery on blanket, in collaboration with Elizabeth Albangre Accra, 2018 © Ulla Deventer

I read in your statement that sex workers have piqued your interest since you were a young girl, begging your parents to walk down the Reeperbahn, Hamburg’s major red-light district. I read that–and correct me if I’m wrong–similar to Amsterdam’s red-light district, women could be found displayed in windows. How does your view of sex work change as you visit more repressed areas where conditions and legality are more consequential?

I always had a lot of respect for sex workers and admired them for their self-esteem. This never changed over time. What I learned was how many lies are in the world about sex workers, the first is that they would be all victims of a pimp that forced them into this work. People tend to generalize everything, once you are a sex worker you must be at least victim of sexual abuse or you have been trafficked. What I can say for sure is every single woman has her very personal reason for starting the job. Second, not any of the women I have met have been forced to do this job, except those in Athens, they have been worked under the will of their lover boys. Even the women I know who work in terrible conditions in the streets of Accra – they could, within their community, do another job like sell food or drinks for example. It is their choice to go for sex work because it was the better option in their cases. People judge from their own presumptions – because they cannot imagine doing the job, they believe nobody else could. What is way more crucial is not do constantly evaluating why they do it and to what extent it would harm them, we should rather start to include sex workers in politics and public debates. The big difference between Ghana and Europe is that in Ghana there is no shelter for sex workers in need due to the simple fact that sex work is illegal. Still, it is widely tolerated and very common. I witnessed situations where sex workers have been arrested for their work and ended up in prison where the conditions are terrific. Once they got out, they didn’t have a place to go and slept in the streets. Without shelter, you can very easily get diseases like malaria and typhus that can end fatally without treatment. In Europe, you can still seek help from social institutions. This kind of support is missing in Ghana and makes a big difference, but not only for sex workers but all people living in the streets who can only survive with illegal jobs.

I was more surprised by societal behavior than I was by the women. What we need is a regulation of sex work, that offers human work conditions. Simple. Look at Brussels, where the landlords can take more them 700€ per week for a room that is rotting to pieces and doesn’t even provide a shower. That is a crime. And how can one accept that you can get sex for less than 10€? People are paying more to get their coffee!

Suzanna, Athens, Greece, 2016 © Ulla Deventer

The Ashtray, Athens, 2016 © Ulla Deventer

How do you think the still life photographs speak to your project? They are very unexpected in their staging. Can you speak on your approach to photographing objects?

I am very critical about portraits of people who are stigmatized. I discuss carefully with the women if they want their picture to have taken, often we decided not to reveal the face. Sometimes I even don’t ask for a picture because I believe it could lead them into difficult consequences. Some simply cannot evaluate the consequences of a published image themselves because of the lack of education. Still-lives are therefore essential for me to tell stories on a metaphorical layer. They allow me to add my own comments to the work and I feel much more deliberated using objects to illustrate my thoughts than portraits. All of them are constructed with objects from the field in that I am working and always created on the spot, I don’t work in a studio but need the vibes of the real surrounding.

Another reason why I like still lives is, that they are much more universal, people can project themselves into it and approach the stories from a very personal angle. While a portrait risks to create the opposite and people might feel a distance without looking further than that, especially when it is about delicate topics.

The Ashtray, Athens, Greece, 2016 © Ulla Deventer

The Oranges, Antwerp, 2013 © Ulla Deventer

The women are presented in very different ways even throughout this selection of images. Some hide their face, some clothed, some nude, some playful, some more serious. What influenced the way you photographed each woman?

Every woman is portrayed differently because they are different. I am sometimes criticized because I am not working consistent enough within my series, as a typical western, especially German photographer would do. I am often bored by this idea of consistency in portraiture. The final image is a construct of the woman I portray and myself, which is unique, it is a synergy that comes in the moment.

Ramona, Paris, France, 2016 © Ulla Deventer

How do you see this project growing? Do you see yourself traveling to the Americas?

America is not on my list for now. There are many more places that are important for highlighting women’s oppression. In general, I prefer staying in one place for a longer period of time in order to get real insight instead of moving on to other countries. After this almost 6 year collaboration with sex workers, I am focusing towards a more nuanced research on society, which is about deconstructing binary visions on gender and questions ideas of sex, dependency, and power. I started working on it in Havana, Cuba where I have been invited by a Belgium-Cuban research group. It is a collaboration with 8 photographers from both countries.

At the same time, I recently enrolled for my Ph.D. at the Kwame Nkrumah University in Kumasi, Ghana. I have been in different art schools in Europe but this art faculty is really a special universe, not only for the great community they have. Their whole philosophy of teaching is very emancipatory and always from a global and critical perspective what I haven’t experienced in this intensity before.

The Cat, Brussels, Belgium, 2014 © Ulla Deventer

Lizzy, Accra, Ghana, 2017 © Ulla Deventer

You write about Elizabeth, a participant in your project who you developed a friendship with as you shared a studio in Accra, Ghana. What did she have to say about the work you had done in Europe?

Elizabeth, or Lizzy, is actually doing very well, I am proud of her. She is still living with me, not in Accra but here in Kumasi where I am studying. She got a job as the nanny of a good friend and is doing excellent work, taking care of 3 kids and managing the housework. She has this hope to get to Europe one day, like many other people from the Global South with the idea that everything would be easier over there. It surprised her that sex workers actually don’t really earn much more in Europe than here in Ghana. Since she is doing great today and is very much down to earth, she focuses more on a future in Ghana than in Europe. It is in general interesting to compare different sites, also from a European point of view, sometimes just to realize how much they are all the same.

Sandra, Paris, France, 2016 © Ulla Deventer

WCW Questionnaire:

Describe your creative process in one word.

Driven

If you could teach a one-hour class on anything, what would it be?

Empathy. You can only have real empathy when you understand the origin and creation of racism and of binary visions. To acknowledge your own position, especially as a white privileged from the West is key for everything. This understanding is a long process because you have to be critical about yourself and your intentions. You have to know your motivations and your audience.

What was the last book you read or film you saw that inspired you?

The documentary Female Pleasure is one of the best documentaries I have seen in the past months and it is a shame that it didn’t get a broader audience. This documentary gives perspective on women’s rights that should be known by everyone in this world.

I am a fan of podcasts and I some time ago discovered “Speaking About Racism” which is very inspiring and worth listening. For readings, I had recently fun to read The King Kong Theory by Virgine Despentes. For more heavy stuff, the paper “Feminism Without Borders” by Chandra Talpade Mohanty is really good. These texts should be translated into a more popular and form accessible to everyone, they are so essential to understand our world and to finally act for the better.

What is the most played song in your music library?

Believe it or not, I don’t have a music library. Music for me is extremely physical. Dancing is like a drug to me, I cannot just listen to music like that, it distracts me from all my thoughts that I constantly try to bring in order.

Still, one example of a song that became meaningful to me over the last years is the pop song “Ayoo” by Shatta Wale – it was all over Accra while I came to Ghana for the first time and is full of warm memories of the people I met back then and who still mean a lot to me.

How do you take your coffee?

Better no coffee than bad coffee. Then I take it black and in a real cup.